"Everything on the land is reflected in the sky. So if you want to learn about indigenous astronomy, You have to learn about everything." This week we welcome Duane Hamacher to the HPS podcast as he discusses Indigenous science and its importance in the Australian context. Duane is a professor of astronomy who focuses on Indigenous astronomy, its history, and its present role in our knowledge systems. He works with elders from Indigenous groups across the world to bring to light the history of astronomy in their culture, and how we can appreciate and learn from it today. He discusses with us the importance of considering Indigenous knowledge systems, be they oral, dance, or art, and their validity amongst Western science, and the importance of not dismissing that which looks different from what we might have previously been taught. At the University of Melbourne, Duane teaches a course called Indigenous Astronomy, run through the physics department, which highlights for students that there is more than one way of knowing, the synergy which exists between different modes of knowing, and how this fits in with the rest of their schooling at the university. Indigenous and Western ways of knowing are not disparate ideas, but run in parallel. A transcript of this episode can be found here: https://www.hpsunimelb.org/post/duane-hamacher-transcript-s2-e4 Some links related to this episode can be found below: Book - Disciplining the Savages: Savaging the Disciplines by Martin Nakata Book - The First Astronomers - How Indigenous Elders Read the Stars by Duane HamacherArticle - Stars that vary in brightness shine in the oral traditions of Aboriginal Australians (theconversation.com) by Duane Hamacher Book Chapter - Safeguarding Indigenous Sky Rights from Colonial Exploitation by Karlie Alinta Noon, Krystal De Napoli, Peter Swanton, Carla Guedes, Duane HamacherArticle - Dismantling the Divide Between Indigenous and Scientific Knowledge by Arun AgrawalThanks for listening to The HPS Podcast with your hosts, Samara Greenwood and Indigo Keel. You can find more about us on our blog, website, bluesky, twitter, instagram and facebook feeds. This podcast would not be possible without the support of School of Historical and Philosophical Studies at the University of Melbourne. www.hpsunimelb.org