The Loop is a Journalism Value project podcast, brought to you by Reference. In each episode, we interview a manager or journalist from an independent newsroom in Europe. We talk about key challenges for them, ranging from funding and business models, to community engagement and organizational structures, as we explore  what success and sustainability looks like for independent media today. This podcast is brought to you by Reference, a self-organised network of 26 European independent news outlets, hosted by Arena for Journalism in Europe. In this episode we talk to Diogo Cardoso and Sofia da Palma Rodrigues, the co-founders of Divergente, a digital magazine of narrative journalism. Divergente was created in 2014 with a focus on long-form multimedia journalism. For ten years, it has grown into a professionalized newsroom. This episode focuses on that path of growth and on how to stay true to the project while growing. It also delves into different revenue sources and the funding paths that are not worth taking.