Chatted with my friend Leopold Aschenbrenner on the trillion dollar nationalized cluster, CCP espionage at AI labs, how unhobblings and scaling can lead to 2027 AGI, dangers of outsourcing clusters to Middle East, leaving OpenAI, and situational awareness. Watch on YouTube. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Read the full transcript here. Follow me on Twitter for updates on future episodes. Follow Leopold on Twitter. Timestamps (00:00:00) – The trillion-dollar cluster and unhobbling (00:20:31) – AI 2028: The return of history (00:40:26) – Espionage & American AI superiority (01:08:20) – Geopolitical implications of AI (01:31:23) – State-led vs. private-led AI (02:12:23) – Becoming Valedictorian of Columbia at 19 (02:30:35) – What happened at OpenAI (02:45:11) – Accelerating AI research progress (03:25:58) – Alignment (03:41:26) – On Germany, and understanding foreign perspectives (03:57:04) – Dwarkesh’s immigration story and path to the podcast (04:07:58) – Launching an AGI hedge fund (04:19:14) – Lessons from WWII (04:29:08) – Coda: Frederick the Great Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at www.dwarkeshpatel.com/subscribe