In this episode, I speak with technologist, musician, and author, Jaron Lanier about technology, behavior modification, artificial intelligence and virtual reality and consciousness. We discuss the internet economics, his critique of free services, and how to re-think the internet, data collection, privacy, and paying people for their data. We also discuss the human rights and the nature of personhood. Jaron Lanier is the author of several books on technology and was one of the founders of virtual reality and coined the term. He also wrote a book on the philosophy of the person, "You are not a Gadget: A Manifesto". He has a long and distinguished career in tech. He began computer programming in the 1970s, worked for Atari in the 1980s, and later founded a virtual reality company. He has been a founder or principal of a number tech firms which have been acquired by Google, Adobe, and Pfizer. Jaron currently works at the Office of the Chief Technology Officer at Microsoft Research. Show Notes: https://www.themoralimagination.com/episodes/jaron-lanier