In this episode we unpack the topic of: Do product leaders make good COO's? with Martyn Fagg, COO of Tillo and Matt Jones COO at ex-COO at ParentPay.  Bethany and I discuss the following:  What does a good product leader look like? What does a good product manager look like?  We then discuss the following with Martyn and Matt:  How did the transition to COO happen?Was picking up the people function challenging? How do you get the people function to be more data-driven? How do you get product development and commercial to learn from each other? What product development KPI should be included in the company dashboard? References The Speed of Trust: The One Thing that Changes Everything The Four Foundations of SaaS  Biography:  Martyn Fagg is a seasoned CTO with 20 years experience in software engineering and fintech leadership - passionate about fostering innovation, collaboration, and continuous learning. Currently COO at Tillo, a B2B embedded rewards & incentives platform working with some of the world’s top brands to deliver real-time digital gift & prepaid cards. Matt Jones recently served as the Group Chief Operating Officer at ParentPay, a leading provider of payments and MIS solutions for schools in the UK and Europe. He joined the company in 2017 and initially held responsibility for Product Management, Software Engineering, IT, Service Operations, Customer Implementation, and Customer Support across several early Group businesses (ParentPay, Schoolcomms, Cypad, WIS, and nimbl). Additionally, Matt oversaw the group Security function, ensuring the protection of the company's and customers' data assets. Prior to his tenure at ParentPay, Matt briefly served as COO at IRIS Software. He also spent six years as Senior Vice President of DevOps at NewVoiceMedia (acquired by Vonage) and held previous roles at Mimecast and MessageLabs (acquired by Symantec). Summary:  Product development in CEO role with Twilio and Parent Pay leaders. 0:06Brandon and Bethany discuss their cultural heritage for a school event, with Brandon dressing as a tech bro from Silicon Valley and Bethany dressing as a Canadian with a hockey jersey and maple syrup.The hosts joke about stereotypes and cultural representations, with Brandon accidentally saying "boot" instead of "boot" and Bethany pointing it out.Brandon M. questions the importance of good product leadership, emphasizing the need for a clear product vision and strategy, as well as effective team building.Martin F*g, Matt Jones, and Brandon M. discuss the role of product development in the CEO role, with a focus on product leadership, strategy, and team building.Product leadership and CEO roles in tech companies. 4:50The CEO and product leader roles require different skills and perspectives, with the CEO focusing on the overall vision and strategy, and the product leader translating that vision into a tangible product.The product leader must be empowered to take ownership of the vision and make it a reality, while the CEO can evolve their role to focus on other aspects of the business.CEO and product leader have different visions for product strategy, leading to potential...