Mike & Karen are joined by Defra's Head of Water Efficiency and Demand Management, Katie Smith, for a detailed discussion of Defra's plans to help everyone save water.    Get in touch with the show with any of your questions or comments: [email protected]   Timestamps   0:00 - Introductions 1:08 - Tony V's toilet trouble from back in the 1970s 4:05 - Katie joins the podcast and discusses her role at Defra6:12 - Actions that the government want to implement to help the public reduce their water use8:25 - Why has it taken so long for reduction targets to be established?9:40 - The role of the non-household market in reducing water use12:57 - The ongoing issues of leaking toilets 14:00 - The continual mystery of dual flush toilet buttons17:23 - Mythbusting about the Defra's targets for households and business customers 25:25 - Defra's view on smart metering 28:17 - Katie's water saving tips 31:00 - Shower song recommendations   Show notes CCW's water meter calculator