Listening before you speak
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“So, I’ve been giving Megan Daum’s new podcast, The Unspeakable, a listen. I was a fan of her book The Problem with Everything, even if I didn’t agree with all her arguments against the excesses of left activism and millennial feminism. The podcast offers more of the same, and like many from Daum’s media-skeptical persuasion—call them the Radical Moderates—the podcast invites writers and experts to muse about the so-called New Culture Wars and offer up their own discipline-specific analysis.
In some cases, they offer testimonials, especially if her guest have been lashed themselves by the whip of cancel culture, like celebrity doctor Drew Pinsky, who called his recent dust-up with the Twitter mob over his comments downplaying the severity of the virus “traumatic” compelling him to not only apologize publicly but undergo some deep self-reflection. If he’s been chastened by the event, he’s also still smarting from his wounds, still furious with the media for dictating public policy, rather than science, for dealing with the pandemic.
For all his self-reflection, he doesn’t see his own role as a celebrity doctor contradicting medical expertise about the virus as an example of the “crisis in critical thinking” he views as “the problem with everything”—a question Daum asks guests as an appendage to their appearance on her show.
For the record, Daum believes “loneliness” is the problem with everything, the gray force in the world which compels otherwise reasonable people to grab a torch and join the mob of self-righteous social justice warriors online.
For the most part, Daum takes an earnest even light approach to her guests, I’ve noticed. The premise is to let people say what they’re going to say, offer their perspectives, without necessarily challenging these perspectives, or at least not challenge them in a hostile way. Daum is not a pundit or avatar for listeners and their outrage. I venture this might be the hardest part of the show. To listen to her guests without rancor, without wanting Daum to aggressively and expertly pick apart their arguments, poke holes in their premises, and overall kamikaze them with loaded questions. Sometimes Daum will affirm a guest’s point that you wish she’d reject. This seems deliberate on Daum’s part. It exposes how conditioned we are to be combative and dismissive and ready to pounce when disagreeing with an opposing viewpoint. In rhetorical studies, they call this a type of deep listening, how through the act of thoughtful and committed listening, even your most hostile opponents can be disarmed, especially as the contexts for their views, even when wrong, can help you to understand their passionate commitment them.
As an essayist, Daum is most skeptical about narratives, especially media narratives, which like a tidal wave sweep away all nuance and contradiction, reshaping the political landscape into stark opposing black and white camps, as evident in our current anti-racist moment. “You have to see that race is a factor in America, but not the only factor in these situations, or sometimes not a factor at all,” her latest guest, former Professor of Police Science Peter Moskos says about the problem of policing, in particular, police shootings of unarmed suspects in the latest episode.
The episode pushes back against the dominant narrative that policing in communities of color has been a disaster and that police reforms, implemented in the last few decades, have largely failed. The numbers just don’t bear this out, Moskos argues.
Both then go on to condemn a slogan like “defund the police” as chanted by white progressives who largely live in safe, well-policed neighborhoods, and what defunding the police as a solution to aggressive and unjust policing means to those living in high crime areas where better policing, Moskos contends, has made an appreciable difference in the quality of life in their communities. Even “broken windows” preventative policing is largely misunderstood, he Moskos, even while admitting its original intentions were betrayed by Stop-and-Frisk-style of policing that critics were right to call harassment in some cases.
“Again, perception trumps reality,” Daum responds. I think this is true to some degree.
Even if it were the case that the latest data reveals that interactions between police and communities of color have improved, the reality is easily undone by the perception, evident in the twenty seconds of viral video of the murder of George Floyd that sparked this summer’s protests.
This is because when it comes to racism in this country, perception is reality to some degree. When a police officer kills an unarmed African-American no amount of data suggesting the incident is a statistical rarity is going to keep the rest of us watching the video to bracket out the historical legacy of racism, the racial divisions inflamed by this current president, and react accordingly.
If a Jewish person in Germany is killed by a white supremacist in that country, no amount of data showing how rare such crimes are or likely to occur is going to stop people from examining the crime under the specter of the Holocaust, whether or not doing so is reasonable. As exasperated as Moskos, Daum, and the rest of us are about all roads leading to racism in this country, until this president is removed from office, and the country can have a calm and respectful and fruitful conversation about policing between all interested parties, every road that bypasses this main one will continue to lead us astray.
I thank Daum’s podcast for forcing me to listen and clarify my arguments. That’s all we can ask for when letting others speak—even those we don’t agree with.”
alex search via Apple Podcasts ·
United States of America ·
08/22/20
More reviews of The Unspeakable Podcast
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“Libby was your most ignorant guest so far about reality AND TERRIBLE AUDIO (PLEASE HAVE INTERVIEW SUBJECT RECORD AN AUDIO FILE so we can Hear it!!!!!!!!!!!!!)”
EchoparkJimmy via Apple Podcasts ·
United States of America ·
09/21/21
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“What a treat this podcast is. I look forward to it each week. Not only is Meghan Daum so very smart — she articulates what I’ve been thinking all along and don’t always have the words to express — she also has great questions, guests, and interview skills. This podcast helps me be a better...”Read full review »
LoriFLA via Apple Podcasts ·
United States of America ·
10/20/20
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“The Unspeakable is a great podcast, and Meghan Daum a wonderful host. The episodes fly by, and manage to be both intelligent and warm-hearted. I give it five stars, although I will add, I don’t understand why there’s so much talk of what’s happening on Twitter (maybe I live under a rock), or...”Read full review »
listenin’ fool via Apple Podcasts ·
United States of America ·
11/11/20
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