We welcome Eric Sutherland, Senior Health Economist at the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), which we covered in episode 2 of season 2 with Eric's predecessor, Jillian Oderkirk. Eric spent 20 years with a global bank in the financial sector, but wanted to fulfil his wish to be engaged and find meaning in his work, transitioning to roles locally and federally in health on data strategy. Having worked with the Canadian government on health data strategy development, Eric recently moved to the OECD, in particular focusing on the impact of digital tools and data on heath care delivery and outcomes within the overall health ecosystem. In this conversation we start discussing Eric's definition of digital health, in his new role as Digital Health Lead at the OECD, and recognising there is no universal definition, but with a particular focus on technologies, interoperability and governance, linkage, quality of data, analytics and various intended use of health data. Against a context of incoherent fragmentation, Eric is focused on being able to produce useful guidance for countries to implement integrated digital health ecosystems, based on the three layers of digital tools, integrated data and responsible analytics. Beyond this Eric outlines what he thinks is working today in digital health, and what's not, using an analogy of water, pipes and outlets to describe this, where we find ourselves too often drowning in data, but thirsting for evidence. Continuing to use this analogy we discuss how this all operates, who is responsible for the different elements, and some best practice use cases, such as OHDSI, or the FAIR principles, with ideas to promote conscious collaboration in making this all work. A lot of what we are trying to do is grow the digital health ecosystem by addressing technical fragmentation; the social, cultural, policy and process challenges; and trustworthiness (as opposed to trust alone). In the end phase of this conversation, Eric outlines what he thinks are the priorities for Digital Health, with the three layers in mind, and a need for integrated care via multidisciplinary providers supported by integrated data, with a pivot to person-centric versus a facilities-centric philosophy. Inclusivity of new technologies to reduce non-value added tasks and activities while rationalising better data governance and data capture requirements could certainly beneficially impact on the workforce, lowering workloads and enhancing care delivery as one example. And as Eric points out, 'if we want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together'. Some additional resources from the OECD: OECD reports: ⁠Health data governance⁠ ⁠Integrated care⁠ ⁠Health system resilience⁠ Canadian reports: Expert group on a Pan-Canadian Health Data Strategy⁠ Canadian report on doctors in Nova Scotia⁠ The views expressed by the participants are personal and not necessarily reflective of their organisations.