“Progress is the realisation of utopias” - Oscar Wilde I had an engaging conversation with Doris Viljoen and Schalk Engelbrecht. We discussed the relevance of utopian thinking with perspectives from Philosophy and Futures Studies. Doris is a senior futurist at Stellenbosch University’s Institute for Futures Research (IFR) where she endeavours to interpret global as well as local trends and assess their relevance for South Africa and Africa. She has specialised skills in environmental scanning, the application of foresight methodology, scenario planning as well as strategy development.  Before joining the IFR, Doris did consulting work on feasibility and location assessment studies for large capital projects and received the top student award on the M.Phil Futures Studies programme. She has a wide range of research interests and is passionate about asking the right questions, searching for and finding relevant data as well as designing tools and techniques to facilitate thinking about plausible futures. She is well versed in multiple scenario planning techniques and has facilitated decision making teams through scenario exercises on topics ranging from infrastructure planning, higher education, and downstream metals beneficiation to the futures of work in South Africa. Doris also lectures on the academic programmes in Futures Studies at the University of Stellenbosch Business School. Her particular areas of specialty are scenario planning, organisational foresight, futures studies frameworks, tools and techniques, and managing foresight projects.  Her research towards a PhD in Futures Studies looks at the future of work, specifically focusing on non-conventional employment engagements. Schalk is an ethicist, the Chief Ethics Officer at KPMG in South Africa, and a student of philosophy. He is responsible for KPMG’s internal ethics programme, and assists client companies to identify ethics risk, develop Codes of Ethics, design ethics management programmes and facilitate ethics training. Schalk is also a research associate with the Centre for Applied Ethics at Stellenbosch University. In 2010 he completed his PhD in Philosophy with a thesis on the need to revive utopian thinking in an anti-utopian age. He has presented papers at national and international conferences on topics that include "radical business ethics", "the problem of the commons in organisations", and "ethics and utopian thinking". He is published in academic and popular journals and has been an invited speaker at conferences and provincial Anti-Corruption events. Before joining KPMG Schalk lectured Philosophy and Ethics at the University of Stellenbosch and North-West University. He has lectured Business Ethics as part of the University of Stellenbosch Business School's MBA programme, and was the previous editor-in-chief of the African Journal of Business Ethics. Resources: Bellamy, E., & Beaumont, M. (2007). Looking backward, 2000-1887. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Bregman, Rutger. (2017). Utopia for Realists. London, England: Bloomsbury Publishing PLC. Cooke, M. (2004). Redeeming Redemption: The Utopian Dimension of Critical Social Theory. Philosophy & Social Criticism, 30(4), 413–429. https://doi.org/10.1177/0191453704044026 Hines, A.(2020). Utopia is a moving target: https://www.andyhinesight.com/after-capitalism/utopia-is-a-moving-target/ Huxley, A. (2007). Brave new world. Toronto: Vintage Canada. More, T., & Turner, P. (1965). Utopia. London: Penguin Books. Skidelsky, R., & Skidelsky, E. (2012). How much is enough?: Money and the good life. New York: Other Press. Tankersley, J. (2018). Reimagining Our Tomorrows: Making Sure Your Future Doesn't Suck. Unique Visions, Incorporated.