In this episode, I have a heartfelt conversation with Gemma MacDonald, an independent change agent and all round brilliant human.  Through our conversation, we hear about Gemma's experience of change in the banking sector and in the NHS. We discuss the key themes she has seen and how we need to stop being so 'institutionalised' in our thinking about work, and therefore change. A key theme throughout is the importance of the individual and therefore the importance of good self-insight and mental health. We bond over both being seen as 'rebels' too. She paints a bright future for change if we can just start getting into the depths of what it is all really about.  You can find out more about Gemma and chat to her on Twitter @GemmaVMcd She also mentions; @EnergyProjectUk  @SeaSaltLearning & @JulianStodd    Apologies there may be some background rustling in this episode but it is hopefully easy to ignore with all the good stuff you will be hearing.