A chance conversation on a city bus in the 90s forged the bonds of friendship between Griff and Dave, and they have been made only stronger over the years by the fact that they are both members of an elite group who have been close to the enigma that is Matt Matsuoka. So they talk about that, and along the way Griff charts his course from grade school skateboarder to teenage punk rocker to the black belt holding, Brazilian jiu-jitsu school owning adult that he is today. “The metal kids were right,” he concludes. Listen and find out why.