Recently Philip and Sabine Hossenfelder had a discussion on Twitter about the relationship between science and the entities referred to in scientific theories: https://twitter.com/Philip_Goff/status/1725487476695830778. We're going to interview philosopher of science doctoral candidate Cat Gillen (Durham University) on the debates between realists and instrumentalists in the philosophy of science. To support this podcast, please consider donating to our Patreon, including joining the Mind Chat community that discusses each month's episode with Philip and Keith following the broadcast: https://www.patreon.com/MindChat