How do we motivate kids to be high achievers? The answer may be different than you think. In this conversation MTJAS podcast host Karen speaks with the director of a learning center for adolescents set in the North Star model of secondary education, George Popham of Bay State Learning Center (the center which Karen's sons attend.) George digs into the differences between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, how achievement will come – but only after a teen feels engaged – and what that really looks like in a school setting. Hope you enjoy today's conversation! Key Links in this episode For great research on intrinsic and extrinsic motivations, click the link below for researcher Carol Dweck: https://mindsetonline.com/abouttheauthor/ Click here for Daniel Pink's TED talk, which George cites in our conversation as a great resource for understanding motivation. https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation New York Times best-selling author of The Gift of Failure Jessica Lahey on how extrinsic motivation sets kids back in their learning: http://weturnedoutokay.com/134 American Academy of Pediatrics president Dr. Benard Dreyer on how our parenting style influences our children's learning and enjoyment of life: http://weturnedoutokay.com/107 Early Childhood Education professors Lisa Daly and Miriam Beloglovsky on the stunted growth and development of young adults they see every day, brought about by a lack of open-ended play (including the story of one twentysomething who didn't know how to operate a screwdriver): http://weturnedoutokay.com/212