Summary What is most difficult or challenging about operating as a leader in a place like Oxfam? What does it take to lead from a political frame in NGOs? Rational persuasion: is it overrated?   In this NGO Soul+Strategy podcast episode, I interview John Samuel, Oxfam Asia Regional Director on influence and power in complex NGOs. John is an expert on Organizational Development. He is also the founder of Bodhigram, an Indian grassroots social movement,   John’s Bio: Regional Director of Oxfam AsiaFormer President of the Institute for Sustainable Development and GovernancePresident & CEO of Trancivic InternationalPresident of the National Centre for Advocacy StudiesCEO of FORUM-Asia, the Asia Forum for Human Rights and DevelopmentInternational advisor at UNDP  We discuss:  What John is most excited about in Oxfam at this moment, as well as what can be challenging as a leader in OxfamOxfam is a complex organization, combining multiple DNAs of the respective affiliates, their histories, organizational systems and national cultures - how to navigate this most effectivelyWhat it takes to develop relationships of trust in an organization like Oxfam: negotiation across differences, people, power, and national cultures. Also understanding where people are coming from, rather than using the same measuring scale on allHow integrity, truthfulness, conviction, and principles can bypass or negate internal organizational political dynamicsJohn's experience is that some people are mission-focused; some are career-driven; and some task-driven; knowing how to recognize these different drivers is helpful.  Quotes:   “Organizations are about people, systems, and power” “An organization is a living system, it’s organic; an institution, on the other hand, is about systems” “Humans are fundamentally relational, so you lead through people and relationships” “Leadership is about communication acts, through language” “Power is not what you have but what you are perceived to have” (Saul Lewinsky)   Resources: John’s LinkedIn Website of Bodhigram, the grassroots social movement founded by John  John’s blogs: Dancing with dreams reflects part of the philosophy of Bodhigram On leadership and language  John’s predictions for a 2030 future for INGOs   Youtube video of this podcast Click here to subscribe to be alerted when new podcast episodes come out or when Tosca produces other thought leadership pieces. Or email Tosca at [email protected] if you want to talk about your social sector organization’s needs, challenges, and opportunities. You can find Tosca’s content by following her on her social media channels:  Twitter LinkedIn Facebook Youtube