In this episode, Joe interviews Alyssa Gursky, LPC: artist, research associate and study therapist at the Social Neuroscience and Psychotherapy (SNaP) lab, and founder of Psychedelic Art Therapy LLC, which pioneers ketamine-assisted art therapy. She talks about her first mushroom experience and how her art and creative process instantly felt different – how the judgment and concern about where the art was going disappeared and was replaced by a freedom; a return to a more childlike way of being, where all that mattered was the fun of the creative process, and expressing her inner world in art. They realized how much the creative process related to true embodiment and the ability to be fully present, and how healing it can be to simply be with other people and create art.  She talks about: The power of being seen in a group, and how the bravery of one person can completely shift the group dynamic The need for mentorship in the psychedelic space The comfort and freedom found in affinity groups The inspiring lives of Genesis P-Orridge and avant-garde filmmaker, Alejandro Jodorowsky Rick Rubin’s ability to treat creativity as a spiritual act and how attending a live wrestling event aligns with non-ordinary states. Gursky is launching a virtual education and support group this March for anyone who wants to integrate art into client work or their own process. Visit her instagram for details. Click here to head to the show notes page.