We face a challenge of understanding information. Because information is considered as something that is written in a book, in a message in a newspaper, it's not understood as something that two bacteria can exchange. And then there is the social challenge, because we think typically of an individual,  an individual human, but not about the distributed cognition in a social setting, both for humans, but also for smaller organisms like cells. So, the idea of cognition on the basic level of the smallest living organism, which is the cell has been very difficult for many people to accept and to understand that everything starts on the level of cell. And some people would say that even parts of the cell have some cognitive properties. There is much  controversy in cognitive science, between people who consider cognition only as symbol manipulation and language, human language, and the people who claim that we have to take into account how much of processes that  underlie cognition are done within the body and the environment. So it's embodied embedded, an active combination. It's not hanging in a vacuum. It's, it's, it's connected with the world. And we were very much interested to get this discussion between colleagues who believe in different views, to get them together and to get this discussion showing where the positions are, and is their common ground and how we go further. Presently, Prof. Dodik-Crnkovic work focuses on intelligent computation and cognition as very important processes found in nature that we can use to inspire new technologies. "Being human to me means the privilege of sharing the past and present, and anticipating the future with other humans. Of course, most importantly to be able to share feelings, and thoughts and be in the world with the closest people like family and friends." If you liked this podcast please tell your friends about it, subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and/or write a brief note on apple podcasts, check out my blogs on Psychology Today at https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/contributors/thomas-r-verny-md