Podcaster, Writer and coming out Coach Anne-Marie Zanzal shares her journey to coming out as a late-life lesbian after decades in a straight marriage. With the hope of building understanding and healing for straight husbands, she sheds light on the experiences of women coming out later in life and answers their questions.    About Anne-Marie: https://annemariezanzal.com Coming Out and Beyond Podcast: https://annemariezanzal.com/coming-out-stories-beyond-podcast/  

Karen Slater had a lot to forgive her closeted husband for, not the least of which is the impact his sexual rejection had on her. It created profound insecurity about her body and sparked years of yo-yo dieting, trying to reignite their sex life, only to have her efforts fail and the cycle repeat. In this conversation, she shares all she had to forgive, why she chose to forgive it, and how she was able to, all while insisting what her husband did in his efforts to maintain his closet were not...

Author Ann Anderson Evans shares her story of loss and healing after she discovered her husband’s body the morning after he took his own life. After a decades long struggle with his gender identity and her husband's suicide, Ann has worked to make sense of her life, the man she married, and the hidden pain he carried. Ann's story is nuanced, complicated, and defies expectations from every angle.  Website: www.annandersonevans.com Book:...

Author and Coach Sally Srok shares her experience of losing herself in a 20-year mixed orientation marriage, learning her husband was gay, and how she rebuilt her life after divorce. After a birthday trip on a cattle drive reawakened her sense of self, Sally found the strength to confront her unhappy marriage, pursue a divorce, and keep her children's lives as stable as possible through it all. But it wasn't until she reexamined a draft of her book, Bonus Round, that she realized she still...

Today we talk to Licensed Professional Counselor and expert in treating sexual betrayal Michelle Mays. She is the author of The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts you the Worst. We discuss the emotional and psychological impact of sexual betrayal on betrayed partners, the four types of gaslighting and their effects, how shame operates in both partners in the relationships, and how to heal.   Website: www.michellemays.com Book: The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal...

In part 2 of our deep dive into forgiveness, we seek a spiritual perspective with Methodist Pastor Carter Cortelyou. We talk about why it can be so hard to let go of the identity of being a straight spouse, what lies on the other side of forgiveness, and why forgiveness can make us feel vulnerable.  Carter Cortelyou is a United Methodist clergy person who has been serving congregations in Michigan since 1990. He currently pastors Novi (long “I”) United Methodist Church in the suburbs of...

It's no secret that people who have been betrayed often have a hard time forgiving the person who betrayed them. Resistance to "letting them off the hook" is understandable. In this illuminative conversation with Professor Everette Worthington, we learn the science and research behind forgiveness - what it is, how to do it, and why it matters for our health and wellbeing.  Everett Worthington is Commonwealth Professor Emeritus at Virginia Commonwealth University. Ev (which he prefers to be...

Michael Slepian is the leading expert on the psychology of secrets and author of The Secret Life of Secrets. Slepian has authored more than fifty articles on secrecy, truth, and deception. We talk about why people keep their sexual orientation and gender identity secret (among other secrets), how secrets impact both the secret keeper and those that secrets are kept from, and whether or not it’s ethical to keep a secret from someone who has a stake in knowing the truth (such as a spouse or...

Dr. Gary Bischof is a professor and coordinator of the Marriage, Couple and Family Counseling Program in the Dept of Counselor Education and Counseling Psychology at Western Michigan University. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in the treatment of couples navigating the gender transition of one of the partners. In this episode, he discusses the pitfalls for couples negotiating gender transition, the factors that can lead to couples staying together, and what...

In our most raw and vulnerable interview yet, guest Arti O’Brien shares what it was like to discover only a year ago that her soulmate, best friend and husband of 30+ years had been cheating on her with men for the entirety of their marriage. They were the perfect couple: compatible in multiple ways, mutually affectionate confidants, and looking toward a happy retirement. It all changed when Arti noticed a romantic text on her husband's phone that wasn't from her... 

After discovering that her husband was regularly dialing "Manhunt," one of the most iconic telephone dating services for gay men, Suzanne knew her marriage was not what she thought. After she left the marriage she endured two decades of post separation abuse and coercive control. Her experience has lead her to become a certified high conflict divorce coach and write her memoir: Cover Wife: Escaping the Wrath of a Closeted (Gay) Narcissist.    Website: hopedoesntquit.com Email:...

When our guest Phil Illy found out he had a sexual orientation that he’d never heard of, he set out to understand it. Following an extensive review of nearly a century of research from clinical sexology, Phil describes and demystifies autoheterosexuality, and how this much misunderstood sexual orientation can set someone on a path to becoming transgender. He helps spouses and partners of trans people learn how the course of autoheterosexuality progresses, how to better understand the ones...

Our favorite self-described former closeted gay narcissist in recovery joins us for a third time to answer audience questions. In this episode he helps us demystify and identify the deflection, script flipping, gaslighting, blame shifting and shame shifting tactics some closeted spouses may exhibit during the course of a mixed orientation marriage or partnership.   Need support? Fill out a support request here. Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to...

10 years ago, Bridget unknowingly married a gay man. He came out to her just four months ago. In this raw, deeply honest episode, Bridget takes listeners on a journey through the early days of her heartbreak with vulnerability and realness. She talks about anger, depression, and coping with learning that her marriage was not what she thought. She may have learned that she was not at fault for the distance in her marriage, but her husband's secret created the conditions for her to spend years...

Jessica Frew is a wife, ex-wife, mom, stepmom, and she hosts a podcast called “Husband in Law” that she records with her husband, Matt, and her ex-husband, Steve, who is gay. Jessica shares here own story of Mixed Orientation Marriage, how they tried to make it work, how it eventually fell apart, and how she and her ex-husband managed to co-create a loving and respectful friendship on the other side of betrayal.  Need support? Fill out a support request here. Your financial support helps...

Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to contribute to the podcast, please donate here. Jason Abair shares his story of high conflict divorce after his wife's coming out. He describes how he navigated serious unfounded accusations, being arrested in front of his children based on those accusations, and the consequences of all of it for his children. He also describes how he rebuilt an exciting new life on the ashes of his old one. Need support? Fill out...

If you would like to support this episode, please donate here.  On today's Season 6 opener, Chump Lady Tracy Schorn talks about cheating, double lives and closets (of all kinds), and the toll being a chump can take on an unsuspecting spouse or partner. Tracy cuts through the nonsense and calls a spade a spade: cheating is the "theft of your reality" and it sets up an abusive power dynamic. With trademark frankness and wit, Tracy tells us exactly why.  Website: Chump Lady.com Book: Leave a...

Dr. Blanchard is widely known for his typology of transexuals and as the originator of the term Autogynephilia, a controversial paraphilia which describes a heterosexual male’s propensity to be sexually aroused by the idea of themselves as women. Dr. Blanchard was the psychologist in the Adult Gender Identity Clinic at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry—now part of the CAMH (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health)—from 1980–1995. Much of his research in those 15 years concerned transsexualism...

In this episode, our guest describes the domestic abuse she endured at the hands of her husband, who was also closeted. She shares the danger signs of domestic abuse, her risky exit from her marriage, and how she now uses her experience to become an advocate for both Straight Partners and Domestic abuse survivors.

Philippa wasn’t sure what it meant for her marriage when her husband came out to her as transgender/non-binary. The road after disclosure was a rocky one, and at times, Philippa didn’t think her marriage would survive. She describes how, with a commitment to treat each other with respect and honesty through the process, they arrived at a marriage that does not require a massive compromise on either of their parts.

Kirsten Duncan, host of the Unexpected Launch podcast, talks about her husband’s disclosure that he is gay, how her entire life as she knew it changed in that moment, and how listening to other peoples’ stories of navigating big life challenges helped her move forward. She shares the questions and doubts she has about her history, and why it’s so hard to talk about having a spouse come out.

Ryan King returns to the podcast to answer your most common questions about closeted narcissists, their motivations and behaviors. He speaks from his own experience and his experience working with other closeted, married (to women) men. He uses what he’s observed to bring clarity and validation to Straight Partners. 

Zoë Kors is a sought-after sex and intimacy coach. She gives us a road map to heal our sexual selves after relationship betrayal. After sexual betrayal, there is an opportunity to reimagine our sexual expression, whether that’s with an existing partner or with a new partner. We explore what is possible for women and men when they embrace their authentic sexual selves and choose pleasure, intimacy, and joy.

Dr. Michael Plank is a pastor and professor. When his wife disclosed that she is a lesbian, their lives as church leaders seemed to hang in the balance. With the help of a qualified trauma therapist, Michael had to find a way to the bottom of his anger, and back out again, in order to heal and find a healthy co-parenting relationship with his former wife.