We were accepting of an increase in deaths every winter 'flu season, but Ashish Jha thinks that is not longer a tenable position. Lessons he learned during his time as the White House Covid-19 coordinator have convinced him we should be taking a different approach to the winter season. In this interview with Mun-Keat Looi, The BMJ's international features editor, we hear about living with COVID, the future of antivirals, vaccines, and surveillance. They talk about long COVID, the investment required to fight future outbreaks effectively, and the role of the US in the global health response.