In this episode, Jack and Shobita discuss Alondra Nelson's departure from the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, and the meaning for the position she created, Deputy Director for Science and Society. We also try to get beyond ChatGPT's hype to talk about some of the long-term implications. And we chat with Kelly Bronson, Canada Research Chair in Science and Society at the University of Ottawa, about her book The Immaculate Conception of Data: Agribusiness, Activists, and Their Shared Politics of the Future.