Amy Fritz is joined by Melissa J. Hogan for a conversation about how they realized they were connected to an unhealthy organization. Amy and Melissa met when Melissa's husband at the time, and Nathan, Amy's husband, were working at Ramsey Solutions. In this episode they talk about how the events happening in the Evangelical world in 2018 and 2019, along with different strategic resources, helped to open their eyes to red flags in the organization. Links:  The Way of the Dragon of the Way of the Lamb  PhD dissertation from Wade Mullen  Bill Hybels abuse report  James MacDonald reporting by Julie Roys  Rachael Denhollander speaks up about abuse at Sovereign Grace  Boz Tchividjian, Abuse Survivor Advocate/Attorney  Julie Roys  Diane Langberg: Narcissism and the System it Breeds  The Body Keeps the Score  Afraid of the Doctor  Steve Hassan, cult expert  Melissa J. Hogan   Find us here: Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith