In this episode of 'Valuable Conversations', MPA Alumni Justin Beirold and Coralie Gervaise from UCL Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose discuss the importance of imagination in the public sphere with ‘renegade scientist’, Phoebe Tickell. Tickell, who has a background in microbiology, talks about her journey into systems thinking and her fascination with how science, governance, and economic systems impact our worldviews. Through her organization, Moral Imaginations, Phoebe aims at introducing imagination and the concept of 'imagination activism' into policy-making, ambitioning to transform societal perceptions and behaviors. She explores the concept of imagination as a transformative tool, noting its impact on the Camden Council's approach to policy-making. She further delves into the importance of integrating future generations and non-human actors in public policy and highlights the importance of art, theater, and creativity in this process. In conclusion, they discuss the fundamental role of imagination in times of scarce resources and the challenge it poses for changing societal behaviors. Learn more about Phoebe: - Phoebe Tickell (Link) https://www.phoebetickell.com/ - Camden Imagines Report (Link) https://www.moralimaginations.com/camden-imagines - Follow Phoebe on Twitter: @PhoebeTickell Follow IIPP on Twitter: @IIPP_UCL  https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/ Production and music by Justin Beirold