We (Larissa and Kim) had the absolute privilege of interviewing Brian McLaren. As many of you know, Brian is a well-known spiritual influencer who has made significant contributions to the world of faith and spirituality. In this episode, we had the privilege of sitting down with him to discuss his life's work, including his four stages of faith development. We dive deep into who Brian is as a person, his books, and his passion for creating a new kind of Christianity that is inclusive, compassionate, and committed to social justice. If you're interested in exploring new ideas and perspectives on faith and spirituality, this is an episode you don't want to miss. Tune in now and join us in the conversation! What We Discuss:  -Faith vs. Certainty  -Theology of Change  -Criticism -The Four Stages of Faith Development -How Brian Played a Role in Larissa and Kim's Coming Out Story -Shaping the Future of Church  -Mental Health in the Church  The Four Stages of Faith Development: The Four Stages of Faith Development that Brian described (after briefly talking about a few of the other models/descriptions that other theologians, psychologists, etc., have put forth) are: Simplicity — You're either for us or against us.  It's all or nothing. Complexity — There's more than one way to do things. Perplexity — Everyone has an opinion.  Who knows who is right? Harmony/Humility — Seek first God's Kingdom… love God, love neighbors… in essentials unity… focus on a few grand essentials. About Brian: Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for "a new kind of Christianity" - just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a core faculty member of The Living School and podcaster with Learning How to See, which are part of the Center for Action and Contemplation. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and is a co-host of Southern Lights. His newest books are  Faith After Doubt (January 2021), and Do I Stay Christian? (May 2022). Connect With Brian: www.brianmclaren.net