Bongi and Matt return for a one off special episode, but that means you get the chance to meet their new four-legged arrival (and find out what Winston makes of him!) Bongi flies solo in this episode to meet a group of black and Asian mums and talks about raising children in a predominately white community. Hear about the challenges they faced in even setting up the 'Black Mums of Cheshire' and the day to day support their new found tribe gives them, in everything from hair to tackling...

Bongi and Matt talk racial micro aggressions, unity and English patriotism, plus when it comes to multi-cultural food, there’s nowhere like Britain. They celebrate the progress of people re-educating themselves about the nuances when it comes to race, but wishes she didn't even need to talk about racism. But on the lighter side, can dogs be prejudiced? If you've enjoyed this episode of It's Not Always Black and White, don’t forget to subscribe and please consider leaving a five star review...

Bongi and Matt get personal in this episode, talking about love, sex and relationships. They’re more honest and open than ever, even if Matt thinks Bongi is lying about her lingerie. Truth be told, and her sister who joins the conversation from South Africa agrees, she’s more likely to be found in a onesie than stockings! If you've enjoyed this episode of It's Not Always Black and White, don’t forget to subscribe and please consider leaving a five star review and comment on your favourite...

Bongi opens up about her own mental health and how hard she has found the last two years, sharing her experiences of racism and heart-breaking personal loss. Matt admits he's usually level headed but the pandemic and lockdown have been tough on his mental health, but both are thankful for Winston for keeping them going. If you've enjoyed this episode of It's Not Always Black and White, don’t forget to subscribe and please consider leaving a five star review and comment on your favourite...

Bongi and Matt reveal just how spoilt their 5 year old pug Winston is, what Bongi’s family in South Africa think of their pampering ways and how Winston helps lift things when the going gets tough. The couple open up about how Winston's pulled them through the hardest times in lockdown and discuss if it's set a precedent to the type of parents they'll be. If you've enjoyed this episode of It's Not Always Black and White, please subscribe and consider leaving a five star review or comment...

Bongi is a Christian and Matt is agnostic. In this episode they talk about their differing views when it comes to faith, what part religion will play in their future children’s lives and why Bongi likes to pray with their 5-year-old pug Winston. If you've enjoyed this episode of It's Not Always Black and White, don’t forget to subscribe and please consider leaving a five star review and comment on your favourite podcast app.

Bongi and Matt talk openly about the cultural differences between their families, the fears they have about raising mixed race children and what their relationship with their 5-year-old pug Winston has taught them about parenting. If you've enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe and please consider leaving a five star review and comment on your favourite podcast app.

It's not Always Black and White returns on Monday 24th January. Bongi and Matt are back and discuss their relationship and views on life as an interracial couple. They've also got a 5 year old pug called Winston who'll be making a regular appearance. They'll be chatting religion, sex and racism.

In the final episode of our football and racism specials, Bongi and Matt discuss how politics ended up on the pitch at Euro 2020. Bongi opens up about how the denial of racism and abuse in the UK means she's had the most traumatic year of her life. Admitting it's made them both want to leave England, even before the abuse aimed at black football players. For both of them, it's not just about monkey emojis sent to Rashford, Sancho and Saka, it's much deeper. They discuss the divisions in...

Bongi and Matt discuss why the England team taking the knee become so divisive during Euro 2020 and got them booed by some fans. As a black African woman living in the UK Bongi questions why people accept a family of carrots on TV but not black people on the pitch or telly. She calls out those fans and urges people to really think what they stand for. Matt tries to get his head round why people can’t support the players off the pitch too, regardless of their skin colour. For Bongi she...

Bongi and Matt reach back into the bowl to discuss racism and football in the wake of the racist abuse aimed at black England players after their defeat in the Euro 2020 final. Bongi admits she’s not a football fan but she is a fan of Gareth Southgates squad, and for the first time she could get behind England on their social values. The aftermath has hit her hard. For Football fan Matt what’s been happening off the pitch to Saka, Rashford and Sancho made him feel ashamed and guilty...

Coming from Southern Africa, Bongi understands the term ‘colourism’ and has witnessed it in her own family, but does British-born Matt know it means within Black culture? He will after this. The topics pulled from the hat in the final episode of series one finds the couple discussing some of the gritty, raw issues around race and racism, including the use of the ‘N’ word, and whether it’s use needs wider discussion. Another big question this episode is what they’d tell their own future...

Like many interracial couples during the growth of the Black Lives Matter movement, Bongi and Matt found themselves talking about race in a different way. They’d never really talked about racism as an institution or what it meant for their marriage, until now. In this episode the questions dig deep into it. Bongi speaks up about how she was taught about slavery and colonialism and how that shapes her attitudes today. Matt talks about how witnessing racism in his schooldays has stuck with...

Is being in an interracial couple betraying your own race? Bongi and Matt get deeper into their relationship and explore how it feels to have married someone of a different colour. But how do they think the world sees them differently for it? They take is right back to who they thought they’d marry when they were younger and Bongi confesses the detailed criteria she’d laid out for potential husbands, but did Matt hit the mark? Meanwhile, Matt admits his teenage crushes pretty much shaped...

Bongi and Matt explore sex and how their cultures attitudes help shapes their own marriage In the UK, Matt explored sex before he had the ‘birds and the bees’ chat with his parents – if he had it properly at all. Meanwhile, in South Africa Bongi’s aunts and even Grandma talk about sex and marriage, but not until you’re a bit older. For being in an inter-racial couple, how have they found travelling? Bongi thinks that some places are still off-limits for a black woman and Matt explains...

Bongi and Matt explore what is so great about Great Britain and what other cultures might not agree with as much, like cuddling up to our pampered pets. In the first part of ‘Great Britain’ Bongi confesses to just how close she is with their pug Winston and why her South African family think she’s lost her mind. But does Matt agree that Britain is a nation of animal lovers, and is it the same in Southern Africa? This week’s other questions include the British food you just don’t understand...

Bongi explains what was most surprising about Great Britain when she first came to the country, from the wages people earn to the amount people swear. Growing up in South Africa Bongi was taught that swearing was not acceptable and could even lose you a boyfriend! But the same can’t be said for Matt being raised in the West Midlands. Matt also tries to get Bongi to admit her favourite British accent is Brummie, but she’s not convinced it is. However, can she decide which part of the...

Does your cultural upbringing define your morning routine? It seems it does for Bongi and Matt, especially when it comes to scrubbing in the shower and slapping on the moisturiser. For Bongi’s family in Southern Africa, not doing it right can be shameful if the neighbours notice! Bongi uses fashion to express herself and loves making herself look good through her clothes. From boiler suits to visors, her wardrobe is crammed. But it’s more than just that, as a black woman she feels like she...

Bongi and Matt get into how their cultures’ beauty ideals differ and what they love about how each other look, even first thing! For Bongi, being a black woman in the UK, even her hair can become a political issue. She questions why afro hair is free game to white people, explains why she can change her hair so often and how she hid her au-natural locks from Matt for ages. Beauty isn’t just skin deep though, the couple discuss skin bleaching and why some black people feel like they need to...

When dating turned to love and the prospect of marriage came up, it brought up lots of differences between Bongi’s African culture and the English traditions Matt was used to. Each of their families were worried about the clashes and whether that would come between them. For the couple they were open to live with the differences and to love them. But what did they learn? This week’s questions include whether their families thought they were marrying down, what the biggest differences are...

In the first episode, young married couple, Matt Hodson from the West Midlands and Bongi Msimanga, born in Southern Africa start to explore their cultural differences, and what brought them together. Now living in Shropshire with their pet pug, Winston, they discuss those early days, first telling their parents about dating each other and the bit most couples dread, meeting the in-laws. Bongi did warn Matt that he might see them naked sooner than he thought. Before he met Bongi, Matt...

Bongi Msimanga and Matt Hodson explore their marriage. Talking love, race and the grey spaces in between.